Eric Lyons has navigated the TV production world from New York to L.A. Listen in as we talk to Eric about his journey through production to the path he’s always wanted to be on: working as a script coordinator for an upcoming HBO Max series.
[Kelly]
It is my pleasure to welcome Eric Lyons to our chat today. He has done a lot in production, mostly working in production management for shows like the Talking Dead, at Nickelodeon he worked on Figure it Out, Last Man on Earth, Arrested Development, the Good Place, and then most recently two upcoming pilots for HBO Max. Eric, it’s great to have you here. Can you start us out with a little information about where you’re from and where you started out in your career?
[Eric]
I’m from Massachesuts, went to Syracuse, graduated in 2010. After I graduated, I went to New York City for a little over a year and half and worked at a production company there called Meeting House Productions. They were most well known for producing the show called True TV Presents World’s Dumbest Criminals. It was kind of a comedy clip show. It was a great experience but I felt that for what I wanted to do personally, for more of the creative writing side of things, I needed to go to Los Angeles. One day I booked a one-way ticket to L.A. and gave my two weeks to my boss there and never looked back.
[Kelly]
Do you have any thoughts on why you were attracted to L.A. over New York City and why it was a better fit?
[Eric]
Initially, I was more attracted to staying in New York because I went to Syracuse, I’m from the East Coast, and all of my friends and family are on the East Coast. So it was my security blanket, my comfort zone, and I wanted to stay as close as possible to what I knew. I thought in the back of my mind ‘there are people in LA, there are people in TRF in my major who are making the jump.’ But I didn’t think comfort-wise that I was ready. Finally, a year later, when I felt like maybe I was a bit trapped at that company and I felt like maybe there aren’t as many opportunities in New York. There might be more opportunities now, but I always heard that if you want to do anything creative in film or anything close to writing you have to make the move to LA whether you like it or not. I kind of had to bite the bullet and put myself out of my comfort zone and just do it.
[Kelly]
Did you do anything before you went that made it more easy or more difficult?
[Eric]
The main thing that I knew I had to do was book that one-way ticket. You just have to do it. You just have to not think about it and if this is what you want and this is what your goals and your dreams are. I was much more comfortable in New York because that’s where everybody was. I knew a couple people in LA and I just knew I couldn’t think about it. It’s kind of hard quitting a job. It’s more difficult than you would think. So to even go into someone’s office and say ‘I’m going to leave and this is what my plan is.’ It was nerve wracking.
[Kelly]
That’s actually not the first time we’ve heard from a panelist that you can’t overthink it. So you made that one-way flight. What happens from there?
[Eric]
It’s sort of similar to what’s going on now because we were a year out of the recession, which happened in 2009. A lot of the 2009 grads were not getting jobs because of what was going on at the time. So a year later you think it could still be something I’d have to be concerned about. But I got to LA in September of 2011 and one of the first things I did was I stayed in touch with a lot of my classmates from Syracuse and friends from Syracuse and a couple people that I knew who had already made the move out the year before. I reached out to one of my friends from one of my classes and she had been an executive assistant at a production company and they were producing the show Talking Dead, and when I reached out to her they had been looking for a production assistant on that show. It was probably two weeks after I moved to LA, which I’ll be honest is sort of rare. It happened to me at the right place and right time, and that’s a lot of the time is how it is. Two weeks after my move I started PA’ing on that show and was there till the spring of the next year.
[Kelly]
I love that — your classmates were networking connections for you. I think we focus a lot on people who are already in the industry who have deep-seated careers and they’ve been doing this forever and they’re the ones who can give us advice. But keeping in touch with your classmates and maintaining those connections can be just as important.
[Eric]
I think in addition to classmates, keeping in touch with internship supervisors was always super beneficial to me. I did an internship in 2008 and 2009 and actually right after I graduated, too, I did an internship that turned into a job. I have a habit of staying in touch with a lot of people and not in an annoying way but keeping as many contacts as I can. It definitely works out in that respect.
[Kelly]
Do you have any tips on when you were trying to keep in touch, what would you reach out to them with? How did you keep in touch when you weren’t an intern anymore?
[Eric]
All of these people are very busy and one piece of advice I can give is reaching out every so often but not being obnoxious. A few months ago, I had somebody reaching out once every few weeks asking if I knew of anything. It does start to become more of badgering and if you’re just saying in your email ‘I’m looking for work. I’m looking for work.’ Establishing more of a friendship rapport will help develop the relationship a bit deeper so they don’t feel like they’re being hassled.
[Kelly]
We sometimes talk about recognizing the networking contact as a whole person. Did you find yourself listening for things that were more about their personal life or their hobbies or something else that wasn’t related to what they could do for you?
[Eric]
Yeah, exactly. I found that my strongest relationships that come from people I’ve worked with in the past develop based on common interests we have or hobbies. That’s why I always tell people instead of just focusing on comedy or whatever else you’re interested in, pick up new hobbies or skills. Having a wide range of interests certainly helps. I went on an interview once in 2014 and the entire interview was based around football and that ended up getting me the job because it was more of a friendly, comradery kind of thing.
[Kelly]
You brought up a really good point. When someone is going to hire you, they have to like you first.
[Eric]
Yeah and that’s what a lot of it is. If you’re going into film or TV or production, you’ll hear a lot of people say that they are looking for someone that they can work long hours with and somebody that they enjoy being around. So many of the interviews I’ve had have not been about ‘what are your strengths’ or ‘what are your weaknesses.’ I think my most successful interviews where I’ve gotten hired are talking to the person as if they’re a friend or somebody that I’m just having coffee with. If your sort of stiff and robotic it will show.
[Kelly]
You’re in LA. You got there and you got this job. Is there something that stands out to you as one of the biggest challenges you had to overcome?
[Eric]
I want to mention my second job was working at Nickelodeon. So I worked at CitrusTV and I was the programming director and a girl who was on the executive board with me had put a post up on a listserv that I belong to. We have a Syracuse Alum in LA listserv that hundreds if not thousands of people are a part of and post all the time. She put up a post for a research/segment producer position on this game show and it just turned out that I fit the qualifications. I mentioned CitrusTV to her and I was hoping she would remember me and mentioned Syracuse and that ended up getting me the second job at the Nickelodeon show. It just snowballed from me. My first couple of positions came from Syracuse people but then you gain experience and it keeps going and it domino effects in a good way.
[Kelly]
What was your method for finding your next gig?
[Eric]
So the show wrapped after two seasons and I knew that if you’re not seeing job posts that you’re qualified for, you have to look to other avenues. Networking is certainly one very important aspect of it. When you’re working in production and you know that your show is going to end, you have to plan ahead and be one step ahead of the game. I was really friendly with one of the Nickelodeon executives from the show and she had an office within our office. I just started casually talking to her and became friendly with her and I expressed to her my interests. In the past it was difficult for me to vocalize what my goals were. I told her I wanted to work in scripted TV and I hadn’t done that yet and I told her that this is the path that I want to take and allowed myself to be vulnerable and said ‘here’s what I’m looking for.’ She ended up helping me and knew of a show that was starting up. The challenge for me there was that I’ve always kept my head down and worked in my jobs and did what I was told. I didn’t want to tell people ‘well I really want to be a writer.’ Sometimes speaking up and talking to the people around you who are powerful and in charge and letting them know what you want to do is helpful. It took me years to get to that point and talk about my goals.
[Kelly]
How did you know that was the right time or that you were prepared to have that conversation?
[Eric]
You can call it ‘networking,’ but it’s sort of a feeling when you develop a relationship with somebody at work when it goes from saying ‘hi’ to them on a daily basis to going into their office and being able to talk about a show that you both watched from the night before. When it goes from something you can connect with on another level about something you’re both interested in, they feel like more of a friend. A lot the shows that I’ve worked on, you’re working such long hours and you have such a crazy schedule that you’re going six or eight months where you’re getting to know people really well. They call it the ‘stop and go.’ You’ll be really crazy busy and then there’s some down time when they’re shooting and you get to have some long conversations with people where you really develop personal relationships. When you’re in the midst of the job, you’ll inevitably develop these close relationships and it just felt like the right time.
[Kelly]
For those who have not had professional experience yet, it might sound odd that you can get close to people at work. Would you compare that to any experience you had as a student?
[Eric]
Your internships during the summer can certainly help with that. The internship I did in 2009 was relaxed and it just felt like one big family. It was an atmosphere where people from interns and production assistants all the way at the top felt like they were on the same level. When you start working at a place and you’re there for a long enough time, you know the point that you can start to joke around with somebody or ask them a more personal question. It’s an organic thing that will happen depending on how long you’re at a specific place. Even with school, too, people that you work with at CitrusTV or people in class, it’s always worthwhile to go out of your way to form these more organic relationships. A lot of these people from past jobs and internships, I’m still friends with them. I would probably call them a former colleague but I would also in some instances call them a friend. Whether it’s with school or internships, it will develop organically.
[Kelly]
Going back to your path and the series of events that got you to where you are now and moving from reality to something more scripted, can you talk a little bit about how you progressed to get there?
[Eric]
I kind of moved up the ladder. Even though I knew that in the end I wanted to be on the creative side and become a writer. My parents weren’t helping me so I needed money and to maintain my finances. My main goal was to pay rent. I started moving up the ladder on the scripted side from an assistant to what they call a production secretary and then to an assistant coordinator to a production coordinator to a production manager. I would tell people here and there that this is what I am doing now to support myself. There were always opportunities to move up the ladder that I was already currently on. From there I moved onto another show for CBS called Battle Creek, which only lasted a season, but that was my next move after Nickelodeon. Then I went onto Last Man on Earth in 2015. Then I took a little bit of a break from production for a few months. Then I moved onto the Assisantion of Gianni Versace for FX American Crime Story. Because I had experience in production, the challenge that I was facing was that I kept moving up on the production side because I wanted to pay rent and I couldn’t afford to jump down to a position on the writer’s side. Unfortunately, for me at those times it wasn’t going to make me enough money. So I would work those production jobs and then I would go home and write. I guess making the most use of your time and if you have time to work on your portfolio, your resume or your writing samples.
[Kelly]
The one thing that we hear from a lot of alumni is that if you want to write, what are you writing? You have to stay active in that.
[Eric]
Yeah and when I’ve asked other alumni in the past, they ask ‘what are you working on?’ I think working on your portfolio and samples, it always helps to be working on your own personal stuff. There are fellowships out there that you can apply to at any age. Right out of school you can apply to these fellowships.
[Kelly]
You talked about a lot of great shows that you’ve worked on. How did you even find out that those were things you could apply to?
[Eric]
I’ve applied to hundreds of positions online and not heard back from most of them. I think I’ve gotten all of my jobs out here through talking to somebody or just knowing a friend or somebody I’ve worked with previously. As you are out here and start to meet more people, you will make those connections that will help you get the next things. A lot of positions are posted online because companies are required to, so it’s difficult to have your resume put to the top. What I’ve been doing in production, I think it’s harder to get your resume to the top. I think the key to it is networking and knowing the right person at the right time. That has been the trend for me. I’m a part of a coordinator’s google group, a Syracuse alum, a script coordinator one, and a handful of others. These listserv are essential. I see job posts go up all the time on these. I’ve seen a lot go up on the Syracuse one that says ‘I’d love to get a Syracuse alum in on this,’ whether it be at an agency or a management company or a production company. I’ve seen many, many posts that say ‘it’d be great to get a Newhouse person in here because we’ve gotten them in the past and they’ve been great workers and smart and efficient.’ I see that a lot where you might not need the experience, you might be right out of school, and not have been a production assistant before and they have somebody from Newhouse there and they want someone from there too.
[Kelly]
Is there any advice that you wished someone had given you that you didn’t get? If you could go back and give yourself advice, what would you tell yourself?
[Eric]
Specifically, for what I’m now finally getting into, which I am in the writers room and script coordinating, which basically is taking the notes from the writers room and putting them into the script and sending out new drafts of the script to everyone on the show.
I got some really good advice from a writer who is a Syracuse alum, her name is Allison Bennet, and I reached out to her a year ago. She gave me some really great advice that I wish I had a little sooner. She asked me first if I was in a writer’s group. If you’re not, I think it’s a really great thing to reach out to friends or classmates and form a group and maybe get together and spend time working on your script together. I think her advice there is really great and sort of collaborating on new ideas with friends or people that you might share interests with. Her next point was trying to get involved in improv. It’s a way to get yourself out there I think. I took a class my senior year at Syracuse and it was all about the role improv plays in making you more comfortable. The object of the class was to make you more vulnerable. Whether in an interview setting or public speaking or making art that you’re afraid for people to see because it’s not ready or whatever it is. We did a lot of improv-based stuff and I was incredibly uncomfortable in it because I thought it was a class for actors. It was really beneficial for me as a writer to formulate new ideas and be more comfortable with certain things. Her recommendation for me to look into improv is an avenue that a lot of writers take. So that’s another one. And then applying to fellowships. If you have writing samples or things that you want to submit, applying to fellowships is another great way to get in there. And then talking to current or former bosses from internships.
[Kelly]
My last question for you is: we’re in a time of unknowns and when you were starting out in your career there were lots of unknowns, just because that’s the nature of the industry. How did you stay motivated and not just give into the stress? What did you do to cope with that?
[Eric]
If i’m in between shows or I’m looking for my next job, and I have two or three weeks before my next gig starts up, I do anything and everything to keep myself busy. Whether it be yoga or meditation or writing more or getting involved in more projects, just doing as much as I can. That was always my outlet. Then on the financial end, if I needed money, I had temp agencies I would go to or Taskrabbit. Just ways to keep myself busy to keep making money. Some people that I know now that have given me fantastic professional opportunities have come from those sources. I worked for a boutique temp agency years ago that got me a job at TBS and I worked with execs who read scripts for a living. I still keep in touch with the people that I worked underneath. That was all through this tiny little temp agency. So I think finding ways to keep yourself busy instead of saying ‘well my parents are helping I’m just going to binge Netflix.’ I think for me personally, I’m the type of person that can’t do that. If you want to be a writer, write a new pilot. You can start trying new recipes and cooking things and learning new hobbies will help you create conversations with people and stay in touch with them.
I know people who are completely focused on improv, for example, and that gets old after a while. You want to talk to them about something else. I have a former boss that I keep in touch with and all she posts is recipes and I’ve been doing a lot of cooking lately too and now I can talk to her about that. That will help me organically down the line. As long as you’re not looking like you’re trying too hard to stay in touch because you know that you’re going to want a job from them down the line, you’ll develop real friendships with these people. Expand your mind and delve into different activities and not watch TV with this time that you have.
One big piece of advice I have is I make myself these giant to-do lists. It’s really helpful both when you’re working and when you’re not working. I have my to-do lists for when I’m at work. I make lists for everything. I think it’s super beneficial. I’ll use notepad on my phone, I’ll use my calendar, and I’ll use my Gmail and every morning I email myself a new version of my to-do list.
[Kelly]
Well you’ve answered all my questions so I’m going to open it up to whomever. Who has questions for Eric?
[Student]
In the spirit of speaking about your goals to other people, I want to be a unit production manager. How would you suggest having that conversation and starting it?
[Eric]
Well first of all, if you’re not working with them emailing them and maybe even the first or second email you should definitely mention it. If it’s something where you’re seeing them everyday and working with them closely, you can develop a rapport. Wait until they’re not busy. There are so many times working on something super chaotic where I’ll go into somebody’s office and they’ll get a phone call or they’ll get somebody else that wants something from them and they’re just swamped. So it’s kind of about being patient and waiting for the right time when you know there’s downtime. Right now, we have plenty of downtime so it never hurts if you know somebody you want to talk to about it. They’re probably going to be open and available to hear it. When you’re in the midst of it and you’re working on something, it’s about being patient.
[Student]
If you could go back to your Syracuse experience, what’s one piece of advice you would give yourself?
[Eric]
I had known since I got to Syracuse my freshman year that this is what I want to do. So I think utilizing LA a bit more. I studied abroad in Madrid and I think it was the first year that they opened up SULA. My last boss left college after her third year to move out to LA and didn’t finish. She just wanted to get into the business and get started right away. She’s younger than me and ended up being my boss because she’s been out here longer and she’s been working at it ever since she moved out here. My advice to my younger self would be if you want to go out to LA and do this, start talking to people and learning about companies and shows. Do your homework and do your research and get started as soon as you possibly can. I think I waited and I was more interested in my social life and my classes and leaving college and not as focused on going to LA and becoming a writer. That could have potentially been a detriment to getting the ball rolling. Get started on it, whether it’s networking or doing your homework. No time like the present.
[Student]
You were talking about the different productions you had moved to. Did you find that you were moving with a similar group of people from show to show?
[Eric]
I think for a lot of people they tend to move with the same group and it helps you get to the top a little bit faster. So staying with one producer or executive producer and somebody that keeps getting consistent jobs and they’re just working all the time. If they like you, they’ll keep working with you. I personally did not have an experience like that because either my shows kept getting cancelled or my producer bosses weren’t getting another show after theirs had ended. In 2014, I worked on this show that got cancelled after one season and my bosses didn’t have another show and I needed money. I didn’t want to wait another month or two months until their next thing popped up. I’ve worked with similar people throughout the years, but going from show-to-show wouldn’t work. I kept jumping onto as many shows as I could. If you want to stay with your crew or boss that you’ve been with and you don’t mind waiting and you feel like you can support yourself, a lot of people do that. I have never been the type of person that wants to sit and wait around. As soon as one show ends, a couple of weeks before I’m already looking ahead.
[Student]
What are the most effective ways to do that?
[Eric]
There will be downtime during a production where you can reach out and search for the next thing. A big piece of advice I would have is to, whether you just got a job or not, keep in touch with other people during those times as well because then they can’t see through the BS. To form these relationships, I tend to arbitrarily reach out to people in the past so that they know that I’m alive or maybe looking for something in the future. It’s to keep me fresh in their brains. You’re constantly updating your resume and LinkedIn and you have to keep that in mind because it’s part of the game. You have to keep in touch with people otherwise they’ll forget you.
[Student]
How different do you think your career would have been if you stayed in NYC?
[Eric]
I think I would have been fine. I’m the type of person that tries to find the next thing. Back in 2010 and 2011, I didn’t see as many TV shows being filmed there so I knew that I had to make the move. I feel like now there’s a lot more going on so I think I would’ve been able to find plenty of opportunities in the arena that I wanted to. I know specifically for comedy or writing, Amy Schumer’s show was out there and Broad City and Orange is the New Black. There’s plenty out there now that if I wanted to move back and be closer to my family, the landscape is changing constantly and it’s ever evolving. People that work in our business, if they’re East Coasters, there’s going to be things produced there all the time. I think I would have had a similar trajectory if I stuck it out because you never know what’s going to pop out.
[Student]
What was the transition like from college to your first job? Do you have any advice on when to start applying to your first job?
[Eric]
In terms of feeling prepared, I got my first internship pretty soon after I graduated. I got the internship through somebody I had previously worked with so I stayed in touch with her and I felt close enough to reach out. It was this place in New York and I did feel prepared because I felt like I knew people. She brought me to the building in advance and introduced me and after two or three months it turned into a full-time job. I had already known people, I had been interning there for a few months, and it blossomed into something real. It was almost like training wheels. It was a stepping stone into a real position. A lot of people don’t do that. A lot of people start off with a job right away, but it worked out.
[Student]
Do you have any tips for when you’re working on your writing?
[Eric]
I just bought a cork board and some notecards. So I think setting your apartment or dorm up to be a mock writers room. Putting everything away. Turning off what you need to turn off. Starting to outline all of your ideas. I have a notepad next to me that I’m constantly writing stuff down on and story ideas that I’m putting up on my boards. I have Evan Smith’s Writing for the TV Sitcom that I got after graduation and I’ll still open it up and take notes. Kind of setting up your surroundings for success is going to help you get the focus and the time.
[Student]
As a senior, the most daunting part of the interview is when they ask ‘do you have any questions for us?’ Do you have advice on go-to questions you bring to an interview or stand out questions that you’ve been asked?
[Eric]
With interviews, especially in TV or production, I’ve seen them go one of two ways. Either they stare at your resume and ask you about each position that you’ve had or each show that you’ve worked on. The people interviewing you are just as nervous and scared as you are. Doing interviews can be daunting for the other person. A lot of the best questions and avenues that my favorite interviews have gone down are talking about shows that we’ve seen, what are my favorite five shows that I’m watching now. Just personal questions that are easy answers for you, things that you don’t have to prepare or know off the top of your head. A girl I was interviewing had worked on Top Chef and I love Top Chef, so I started asking her all of these questions about the show. When it starts to become a more personal thing, that’s when it’s most fun and relevant. In terms of questions that you ask the interviewer, I always think of three to five questions that I have. It organically happens that before you even get to the end you’ve already asked them throughout the interview. So questions about them, how they got to where they are. I know those are very vague and generalized. Like I said before, people love talking about themselves so it always helps boost their ego a bit.
[Kelly]
Eric, thank you so much for being here. Before we go, do you have any last tips?
[Eric]
I have two podcasts that I want to recommend. One is called “The Need to Fail” and it’s all people who work in entertainment — actors, writers, producers, directors, people who are in LA, people who are in New York. It’s their stories on how they started out failing and the challenges they encountered and how they overcame them. It’s a really great podcast. The other one is called “Box Angeles” if you’re looking to move to LA and work in TV. That’s another good one. Script Notes is also really good too if you want to be a writer. Those are three really great outlets if you want to be productive during your down time.
